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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997_09_18 Board of Architectural Review Minutes AMENDED MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF THE TOWN OF MAMARONECK SEPTEMBER 18, 1997, IN THE SENIOR CENTER, TOWN CENTER 740 WEST BOSTON POST ROAD, MAMARONECK, NEW YORK Present: Edward Z. Jacobson, Chairman \i9- Robert M. Immerman Cb Lucian J. Leone >" 00 E. Robert Wassman CO nR ECEIVF Pamela T. Washington U I07 ?1 1991 Absent: Anthony Spagnola !\ PATRICIAToo.Dr'° McMARO Also Present: Kevin T. Moore N.Y. Assistant Building Inspector CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order by Chairman Jacobson at 8:05 p.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Mr. Jacobson said that the approval of the Minutes of the previous meeting will be held over until the next meeting, because there are not sufficient members having attended that meeting to approve the Minutes. Mr. Jacobson said to make this evening's meeting more efficient the order of the applicants will be changed, as item #2 is less complicated than Ray Catena Lexus. Chairman Jacobson reading the application as follows: TEDESCO AUTO BODY - 2430 Boston Post Road - Block 503 Lot 421 - signs/canopy Due to the fact that the applicant stated he was waiting for Donald Marin, Esq. to arrive, Chairman Jacobson read the next application as follows: NICHOLAS DEGIACOMO/RAY CATENA LEXUS - 1435 Boston Post Road -Block 411 Lot 249 - signage Nick DeGiacomo, the sign contractor, appeared along with Frank Williams, the General Manager. Mr. DeGiacomo stated the Board, at the last meeting, adjourned the matter to give the Board members a chance to peruse the site. Mr. Jacobson said the members who were present and in attendance this evening did peruse the site. Mr. Jacobson said a copy of the draft Minutes were also received from the Zoning Board meeting making the Board aware of the discussions that have taken place. Mr. Jacobson said Mr. DeGiacomo should move forward, stating that at the last meeting the idea of a lighted sign just did not sit well with the Board. Ms. Washington said the lighted sign did not sit well with only some members of the Board, not all. Mr. Jacobson said the Board was interested in Mr. DeGiacomo looking at alternatives, and asked Mr. DeGiacomo to begin his presentation. Board of Architectural Review September 18, 1997 Page 2 Mr. DeGiacomo said the biggest concern seems to be the additional lighting,and explained in detail how the sign is lit. Ms. Washington asked how tall and how long the proposed lettering will be. Mr.DeGiacomo said the existing sign is 2 ft. tall and 13.3 ft. long. It is proposed to add Ray Catena, also 2 ft. high with the same type of letter style. Ms. Washington asked if making the whole sign physically shorter and the wording of Ray Catena smaller was considered, and if it is physically possible to remove the existing letters. Mr. DeGiacomo said if the sign is to:be made smaller, the letters will have to be taken down. A discussion ensued regarding the relocation of the lettering and the size of same. Mr. Leone said he was not present at the last meeting,but spent an hour on the site last evening reviewing same. Mr. Leone said he is in a business where lighting is a critical item, and goes on the record stating that the sign will not impose any additional lighting on the site. The basic lighting on the site is the HIV lights in the parking lot which are very bright and gave a comparison and explanation using the CVS frontage on the Boston Post Road. The problem stems from the parking lot being over lit. A detail discussion ensued regarding the lighting spill from the parking lot. Mr. Jacobson agrees with Mr. Leone's analysis of the lighting situation,but said the parking lot lighting is not something the Board will deal with this evening. The sign is the issue, deciding whether or not a sign of the magnitude being proposed is appropriate to the Post Road and whether or not it is illuminated in terms of aesthetic impact on the community. Mr. Immerman agrees with Mr. Leone in terms of the light,and feels it is inappropriate for the Board to discuss the parking light lights,as that is not what is presented this evening even though it is an annoyance to the individuals who reside behind and in front of Lexus. Mr. Immerman said adding Ray Catena to Lexus across the whole building is really much too large. Mr. DeGiacomo said Ray Catena does not go across the whole building,but just over the entrance. Ms. Washington asked if Mr. DeGiacomo had made designs where there are different sizes between the Ray Catena portion is physically smaller than the Lexus portion. Mr. DeGiacomo had not, and said that Lexus has a strict sign program. He presented the Board with an 18 in. lettering sign drawing. Mr. Jacobson said the Board must state whether or not the sign is accepted as proposed. Mr. Wassman asked Mr. DeGiacomo to explain to the Board a question the Zoning Board asked about the reduction in size of the overall signage from 200 sq. ft. to 140 sq. ft. Mr. DeGiacomo said the original proposal was taken from blueprints supplied by Ray Catena's architect. When Mr. DeGiacomo went to the site and physically measured the logos, which were much bigger on the blueprints, the actual size was verified and spacing was changed between the letters and the words. A discussion ensued regarding the logos being included in the square footage of the signage. Mr. Wassman asked what the square footage is on the proposed Ray Catena Lexus signage. Mr. DeGiacomo said the 18 in. high letters will be 44.55 sq. ft., the original sign being 77 sq. ft. Board of Architectural Review September 18, 1997 Page 3 Mr. Leone asked if Mr. DeGiacomo is taking the extreme width, left to right, and multiplying it by the height, 35 ft., which Mr. DeGiacomo verified. Mr. Leone said both he and Mr. Wassman feel Mr. DeGiacomo may be correct, because part of the dimension is building facade which Mr. DeGiacomo is computing. A discussion ensued regarding the measurements taken and the square footage calculations submitted. Mr. Jacobson said the Board needs to focus on the aesthetics of the signage. Mr. DeGiacomo said what is presented is a substantial reduction in size. Mr. Jacobson asked if there were any comments on the reduced size of the signage in reference to acceptability.. Mr. Immerman said he feels the reduced signage is more attractive, the enlarged sign a monstrosity. Ms. Washington feels the smaller sign is more in scale with the building. Mr. Wassman said the applicant stated it is the Lexus Corporation that requires the name Ray Catena to be the same size as Lexus and pointed out to the chairman the policy of the Board being it does not recognize as mandatory the requirements of a corporation. Mr. Jacobson said the question is how small can the sign be and still be effective. Mr. Jacobson suggested putting the words Ray Catena above the words Lexus, so Mr. Catena's name is scaled down in relation to Lexus. Mr. Leone said the impact of the site is enormous, and Ray Catena is as important to the site as Lexus as the dealers are relying on a known quantity. Mr. Leone said based on the magnitude of the building and the massing, the size of the parking lot which is enormous, the volume of lights going out of the site which is incredible, the sign as presented is a drop in the ocean. Mr. Leone has no problem with the sign whatsoever. The biggest problem with the site is, and it is not an issue with the Zoning Board, the fact that the applicant should try some lighting tests and if one light were eliminated per upright there would be enough light by contrast. Ray Catena Lexus cannot even be measured with a light meter and aesthetically it is fine. The building is massive and the sign is in proportion with the space. Mr. Leone said he is in favor of the smaller Ray Catena sign without any problem whatsoever. Mr. Immerman said he does not agree with Mr. Jacobson's suggestion. A single line, 18 in., is fine and an improvement over the 24 in. Mr. Jacobson asked if he were in favor of the sign being illuminated. Mr. Immerman said he is not suggesting it be illuminated, it is proposed that it be illuminated and he is not objecting to it. He feels Mr.Leone's point about the illumination is correct. Mr.Immerman said he recalls in the initial presentation that the applicant wished to have Ray Catena Lexus and during several months of discussion he voluntarily withdrew Ray Catena. At that time, the applicant probably did not realize how important Ray Catena was to the name, respects Mr. Leone's analysis and it changes his opinion of the need for Ray Catena to be part of the sign. On a motion made by Mr. Leone, seconded by Mr. Wassman, the following resolution was ADOPTED, 4-1, Mr. Jacobson is opposed: WHEREAS, Nicholas DeGiacomo for Ray Catena Lexus has submitted an application to the Building Inspector, together with plans to move existing Lexus"over showroom entrance to right and add in matching letters Ray Catena to now read as Ray Catena Lexus; and Board of Architectural Review • September 18, 1997 Page 4 WHEREAS, the Building Inspector has declined to issue such permit on the grounds that the review by the Board of Architectural Review is required; and WHEREAS, Nicholas DeGiacomo for Ray Catena Lexus submitted an application for approval to the Board; and WHEREAS, this Board has examined the plans, inspected the site, reviewed the application and has heard all persons interested in this application; and NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED,that the subject application be and the same is GRANTED,subject to the following conditions: 1. The sign as resubmitted September 18, 1997 be accepted as designed; i.e. the sign is 18 in. high, the illumination of all three words be equal and the fabrication be similar. 2. The applicant review the amount of illumination in the parking lot to cut down on the spill to the Boston Post Road. Mr.Williams said he will speak with the electrical contractor in reference to the illumination in the parking lot and have Mr. Leone's suggestion checked out. Mr. DeGiacomo said he will submit drawings to the Building Department tomorrow. Mr. Jacobson said he will send the BAR advisory to the Zoning Board. Mr. Jacobson said he was reminded that he did not ask if there were any comments from the public with regard to the application and proceeded to do so. Donald Mazin, Esq. appeared and said he has a law office next door to Lexus, represents many individuals in the Town and there is not a better tenant than Ray Catena. Mr. Mazin reminded the Board that particular corner is a corner where children come by from the school and lighting is good in that area. Four or five individuals have been killed on that street. The corner being lit is beneficial to the community. Ms. Mazin is glad the Board accepted the signage, as Ray Catena is a credit to the community. Chairman Jacobson then read the next application, which was originally called at the beginning of the meeting: TEDESCO AUTO BODY -2430 Boston Post Road -Block 503 Lot 421 - signs/canopy Donald Mazin,Esq. of 1415 Boston Post Road appeared, representing the applicant. Mr. Mazin informed the Board next door to the building is a paper street. Mr. Mazin met with the Building Inspector, Mr. Jakubowski, and deems the applicants can install a sign on that corner due to the fact it is a paper street and will turn the meeting over to the sign individuals to present the colors and to answer any questions the Board may have. Mr. Mazin said the Board will also have an application at the next meeting for the other tenant in the building,who will be sharing signs with Tedesco Auto Body. Mr.Jacobson said he will arrange for that applicant to make a presentation,as.there will probably be many questions even though it may not be evaluated. Board of Architectural Review September 18, 1997 Page 5 Mr. Mazin said the other tenant has agreed to go along with either the same colors as the existing tenant before the Board this evening, or reverse the colors. Bill Lieberman from Albee Sign Co. appeared and showed the Board colors that will be used for the lettering; blue and white. Mr.Jacobson asked if there were any comments or questions regarding the type face or the way the canopy sign is presented. Mr. Immerman asked if Mr. Jacobson wanted to deal with everything together or one at a time. Mr. Jacobson said however Mr. Immerman wanted to express his comments was O.K. Mr. Immerman said he wished to discuss the signs first, as opposed to the canopy. Mr. Immerman asked if the proposed signs are to put the faces on the existing boxes, which was verified. Mr. Immerman said in one sketch the sign is vertical, actually both signs are vertical, and said if the sign is being divided in half with two different names,he is not sure about the graphics. It should be positive/negative. The letters of Tedesco Auto Body are too large on the background. If it were put together with the other sign as presented, the highest point should be reduced so it is no higher than the top of the oval in the A.P. and the bottom no lower than the bottom of Foreign and Domestic Auto Repairs. Mr. Jacobson said he would like more discussion about the aesthetics of the sign. Mr. Leone would like Mr. Lieberman to explain what is being proposed and asked if there are three sign elements; i.e. a canopy, something on the face and something on the other side, which was verified. Mr. Mazin said Mr. Tedesco put in the awning in an attempt to beautify the side of the building. If the Board does not want the awning, it will be removed. A discussion ensued regarding the boxes and the lettering that will appear in each. Patsy Fuschetto and Anthony Sama, the partners of A.P. Automotive, the upstairs tenant, appeared to answer questions the Board may have. Mr. Jacobson said he has a problem with the entire concept. The two signs adjacent to one another are going to be visually chaotic. The differences in type face is a problem, and Mr. Jacobson is unhappy that the existing sign boxes are tacked onto the roof. It would be an improvement to the Post Road if some other way is found to handle the signage. Mr.Leone said there is a lot of similarity in the type faces, and asked for an explanation regarding the situation. Mr. Mazin said the building has been an automotive use for approximately 40 to 50 years. Each of the individuals before the Board this evening, took over a prior existing business. Downstairs on the street level there is a repair shop, the upstairs level is a repair shop. The downstairs level, around the building in the back is a body shop. On the street level there is a repair business, which does not do body work. On the bottom level in the back, is the body shop which does not do repair work. There are two different businesses doing two different types of work. Mr. Leone said for clarification when Mr. Mazin is talking about the upper level it is street level, and the lower level is below grade. Mr. Mazin said no one would be aware of the lower tenant without a sign. Board of Architectural Review September 18, 1997 Page 6 Mr. Leone, a graphic designer, said the signs are too much alike. Mr. Leone recommends using Roman Letters. If these are two distinct businesses that share physical sizes and colors on sign boards, typographically they are too close. Mr. Lieberman said he has not been involved in designing both sides. Possibly colors can be changed on one sign, the colors reversed and many other things can be done to avoid the signs looking alike. Mr. Fuschetto said they wanted to keep it simple for the Board and Town, color wise and graphically, as Board's usually dictate what is allowed. Mr. Immerman said Mr. Fushetto is correct, the Board has been resistant to multiple colors: A discussion ensued regarding previous signage and colors used. Mr. Leone said he is familiar with and does not have a problem with the material used by Albee Sign Co., it wears well and is used on airplanes and trucks. Mr. Jacobson asked when the vinyl is back lit, does it go black. Mr. Lieberman said it depends upon the vinyl used. If it is translucent vinyl, it will project a color. Mr. Jacobson asked if Mr. Lieberman is proposing translucent vinyl. Mr. Lieberman said he is proposing using translucent vinyl, blue and white. Mr. Leone said the signage application makes it difficult for the Board to visualize. Ms. Washington said if the applicant can make the signs simpler,possibly taking out the words foreign and domestic and say A.P. Automotive Auto Repairs as opposed to the other one that says Auto Body it might be a way the words are being used will have more impact. Mr. Mazin said using the word foreign is important, as many people do not service foreign cars. Mr. Immerman said the Tedesco sign would be better without the two horizontal bars, less clutter. A detailed discussion ensued regarding the wording and graphics used on the signage. Mr. Leone asked for clarification regarding the arrow on the signage for Tedesco stating it is a confusing element. A detailed discussion ensued regarding using the same type of advertising that is used on the shirt Mr. Fuschetto was wearing. Mr. Wassman said the Tedesco sign should be made smaller and the horizontal bars should be removed. Mr. Mazin said both applicants appreciate the suggestions made by the Board, and the Board now must determine whether or not the canopy can remain. Mr. Immerman said if the canopy is measured there will be problems with how it meets the mansard. The dimensions don't seem to work, and proceeded to explain same in detail. Mr. Lieberman said he did not draw the rendering. Mr. Fushetto said the front half of the building looks very nice and the back half of the building looks like a warehouse. It would help if something was there to enhance the look. Board of Architectural Review September 18, 1997 Page 7 Mr. Jacobson suggested the application be held over until the next meeting so the gentlemen can come back and make a unified presentation with some of the suggestions the Board made. Mr. Mazin said there will still be some difficulty, because there are two different sign people involved. Mr. Immerman said if the drawings are rendered to scale, it can be presented as a paste-up. Mr. Wassman said he is in favor of putting a unified filing sign right on the drawing of the building, showing how the signage is going to be. On a motion made by Ms. Washington, seconded by Mr. Leone, it was unanimously RESOLVED, that the matter be, and hereby is, adjourned to the October 16, 1997 meeting to consider the two applications in one presentation. Mr. Fushetto asked if a metal sign he had put up on the fence could be temporarily put up for the month. Ms. Washington informed Mr. Fushetto to speak to the Building Department tomorrow. Mr. Jacobson asked if there was any other business before the Board. Mr. Immerman asked if he could speak to Mr. Mazin regarding Stop & Shop, which was done off the record. NEXT MEETING The next meeting of the BAR will be held on October 16, 1997. ADJOURNMENT On a motion made by Mr. Immerman and seconded, the meeting was unanimously adjourned at 9:00 p.m. /7 a'1/ 2c k / Marguerite i•Sma, Recording Secretary